tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post2803430249424735528..comments2023-05-03T03:01:09.021-07:00Comments on Screaming Fat Girl: Prejudice, in all its formsscreaming fatgirlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09556199963917842135noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-82310152556399648182013-01-02T19:12:39.403-08:002013-01-02T19:12:39.403-08:00As a postscript, "anonymous", I can real...As a postscript, "anonymous", I can really feel your pain from self-hate. I hope that you find some value in this blog besides using it as a target to misdirect your anger. You unhappiness is very clear and I hope you find some peace.screaming fatgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09556199963917842135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-41046408200143174022013-01-02T19:08:03.116-08:002013-01-02T19:08:03.116-08:00Anonymous:
Her comment was intended as "dero...Anonymous:<br /><br />Her comment was intended as "derogatory". The snark was there. She clearly meant it as a way of scoffing at people. I wasn't offended, as I said, but it was intended as a way of saying something negative about people based on body size. It may be a fact, but how one asserts something conveys intent. Her intent was clear.<br /><br />You're also thinking I was drinking something which could have been criticized. I drank regular coffee. She drank a large hot chocolate with some sort of peppermint syrup added in. My husband had a venti eggnog latte. <br /><br />Also, you clearly have not read this blog and don't seem to know that I've lost 200 lbs. and no longer weigh 380 lbs. The reason that she made the comment to me is that she doesn't perceive me as being a member of the group she was making a snide comment about. I've been on the other side of this equation due to prejudice, which is why I "went on" about it.screaming fatgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09556199963917842135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-63838280551360487642013-01-01T08:32:29.912-08:002013-01-01T08:32:29.912-08:00Your acquaintance's comment was, however, mere...Your acquaintance's comment was, however, mere fact. Americans are large in comparison to people from pretty much every other country on Earth. Our portions, conditioning, increasingly sedentary lifestyle, reliance on new drugs to save us from our self-induced health issues, and reliance on processed convenience foods, gullibility to the "bargain" of a 32-ounce cup of soda as opposed to a 16-ounce cup, etc. are easily observable and concrete reasons that Americans are large and getting larger. You state you're "not offended" by your acquaintance's comment, but you refer to it as "derogatory" (even though what she said is nothing more than plainly stated fact) and then go on for six-plus long paragraphs about stereotypes. Again: no one gets to be 380 lbs by eating 1500 calories of grilled chicken and green vegetables and doing meaningful exercise for 30 minutes a day. Again: Americans are very inactive and very overfed, and very dependent on/addicted to gigantic coffee drinks and platters of cheap, cheese-covered food that are absolutely alien to people from other cultures, as your expatriate experience has made acutely clear. I am not sure what your conclusion/point is, here. She didn't criticize your menu choice, she is overweight (and, I assume, aware that she is overweight) herself, and merely remarked upon how easy it is to eat too much of the wrong foods way too often.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-71695489740710817602012-12-30T15:20:08.040-08:002012-12-30T15:20:08.040-08:00hopeful and free: I think that humans developed th...hopeful and free: I think that humans developed the need to stereotype as a defense mechanism. It springs from the same evolutionary roots as prejudice. There was a time in human history when being able to quickly sum up a person and decide if he or she would be friend or foe aided in survival. However, just like other aspects of our evolutionary heritage, this is something that education, culture, and personal growth can assist us in overcoming. The sticking point is that you have to want to not be a slave to your biological tendencies. Writing them off as what everyone does or seeing them as inevitable is a shoulder shrug of indifference. <br /><br />The interesting thing is that we don't allow people to cop out in this fashion when it comes to racial prejudice. We hold them accountable and insist they be socially responsible and equitable, but we don't apply this to other forms of stereotyping or other "isms". It's okay to look at a guy and think he's a dumb redneck or a woman and think she's a stuck up snob, but it's not okay to think a black person is (apply racially offensive characteristics stereotype here). If we can overcome one, we can overcome others, but we have to want to rather than lazily indulge our baser impulses. <br /><br />Regarding engaging with people, I'm simply tired of being a screen onto which people project their issues. Where I lived before, stereotypes and prejudice were projected on me, but I could let that bounce off more easily because they were coming from an obvious place of ignorance. Here, well, people aren't ignorant so much as intransigent. When I dealt with people one to one in the Asia country I lived in and I told them that I was not what they believed me to be, they accepted that. They didn't insist upon their version of me. Imagine how it feels to be dealing with people who speak the same language as me and persist in holding onto their views despite ample evidence to the contrary!<br /><br />At the moment, I don't see persisting with such people as anything other than a Quixotic attempt to educate them in who I am. Frankly, the conclusion I'm reaching is that there is absolutely no value in doing so. Rather than fight their misconceptions, I will permit them to persist in the comfort of them and move on. Those who can't internalize what I have to say aren't worth my investment in time or energy. I don't say that dismissively or as a way to devalue them as people (each person has equal value), but rather to say that I will allow the relationships I have with such people to stay in a holding pattern rather than to build deeper understanding and intimacy. You can't change people, especially when they are trying so hard to hang on to their worldviews.<br /><br />Jackie: Thank you for your advice. The web site you recommended certainly looks interesting. <br /><br />I would say that, right now, I'm "disillusioned" with my home culture. I think that I imagined things as being better than they are in the absence of experience to the contrary. It wasn't exactly "the grass is greener" thinking so much as not having to deal with people in a certain way for a long time. My depression has largely lifted by now, so I won't be seeking therapy, but, in general, I think it is good advice to do so.<br /><br />Thank you so much for reading and for your kind comments, both of you!<br />screaming fatgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09556199963917842135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-80021596889507403062012-12-30T11:19:55.882-08:002012-12-30T11:19:55.882-08:00Hi again SFG,
I really appreciate hearing back fr...Hi again SFG,<br /><br />I really appreciate hearing back from you and truly hope things improve. I think depression is the WORST-- it's just so soul-draining that it's the biggest Catch-22. In order to get yourself out of it, you need to muster up the strength that the D. sapped in the first place. :(<br /><br />I had two ideas for you, SFG:<br /><br />1) captainawkward.com<br /><br />It's an advice column with so many great scripts for dealing with people like your SIL. I have also started to read "The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense" which looks quite promising.<br /><br />2) I can't remember if you're in the Pacific NW, but if you are the lack of sunlight and Vitamin D can really contribute to depression. There are lamps you can buy on Amazon that can really help.<br /><br />This isn't a suggestion, per se: In my experience, finding a good therapist/counselor at times of massive transition has really helped. Initially, it was hard to justify the cost but it ended up being some of best money I've ever spent.<br /><br />Again, my best wishes and good luck, SFG! I think you are just terrific and have learned so much from your website. :)Jackienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-1412017226399673802012-12-29T14:21:11.698-08:002012-12-29T14:21:11.698-08:00I am curious about your perspectives and thoughts ...I am curious about your perspectives and thoughts as to WHY so many human beings seem to persist in "...pigeon holing people as a means of coping with our own psychological issues..." rather than conversing together (respectfully) with an orientation towards achieving mutual understanding? <br /><br />"justjuliebean" suggests that "...it's human nature to categorize" one another, yet you see this behavior as more than that--as more akin to disrespectful behaviors (using "stereotypes") "...meant to diminish..." other people. I agree with you, and I see this form of disrespect (this failure to recognize...and this failure to empathize) as a manifestation of widespread (learned) social domination that has become almost habitual (to the point where it's barely noticed or acknowledged). <br /><br />It feels like a "disappointment" for you---to be seeing these kinds of distressing (destructive) social behaviors from a different (changed) point of view (e.g., from a different position of social status---or at least from a differently perceived position of social status), but please give yourself more compassion and recognition for all that you are accomplishing each time you choose to socially engage with others rather than choosing to remain socially isolated (and hence more insulated from potential social jabs.) The latter choice requires far less courage. I should know. <br /><br />Brava for choosing the scarier (more uncomfortable) route! That's where the real (lasting) learning happens. <br /> <br />--hopefulandfree<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-35895108806520345132012-12-29T12:04:00.490-08:002012-12-29T12:04:00.490-08:00Hi, Jackie, and thank you for your comment. There ...Hi, Jackie, and thank you for your comment. There is a lot of wisdom in there and I appreciate your sharing it.<br /><br />You are right that depression is very sapping. The strange thing is that I don't necessarily feel "slighted" so much as "willfully misunderstood". I think that a lifetime of being pigeon-holed has exhausted me. I never believed in the whole "if I lose weight, all of my problems would be solved" fantasy, but perhaps I naively believed that the knee-jerk underestimation of me would stop. I see now that it just occurs from a different footing.<br /><br />It is, of course, quite true that we don't see people, but see ourselves. That would be fine, if all of that projection weren't a collective weight taxing my limited capacity to cope at this time.<br /><br />Thanks again!screaming fatgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09556199963917842135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-61838527912197467482012-12-28T16:01:34.423-08:002012-12-28T16:01:34.423-08:00Hey SFG,
I am so sorry to hear about this (thoug...Hey SFG,<br /> <br />I am so sorry to hear about this (though quite selfishly glad to see you posting, as I love to read your writing).<br /><br />Two thoughts come to mind:<br /><br />First, in my experience, depression is so all-sapping of energy (emotional, spiritual and physical) that slights and offenses take on an exponentially worse quality. Unfortunately.<br /><br />Second, I think that most people think that there will be some kind of "worth it" effect in first-impression perception after losing weight. In some cases there is, and the "halo effect" kicks in. But not always.<br /><br />In my experience, the same people who labelled you "donut munching seacow" earlier will be the same ones who will think "born on Easy Street" now that you're skinnier.<br /><br />These kind of people, (in my observation at least), have a kind of built-in "lens of deficient empathy" as the way through which they view the world. <br /><br />People used to think I was not very smart ("ditz" was the term) because of my manner and presentation. It used to bother me until I read this from Hillel, I think:<br /><br />"We don't see things the way they are; we see them the way *we* are."<br /><br />The trick, then, is navigating your way through the world, despite it all. <br /><br />I've had to learn to let some things go; in other cases stand and fight the battle. You will definitely be in my thoughts, SFG, and I hope 2013 is more peaceful for you.Jackienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-2915325610246517272012-12-28T15:59:28.965-08:002012-12-28T15:59:28.965-08:00Hey SFG,
I am so sorry to hear about this (thoug...Hey SFG,<br /> <br />I am so sorry to hear about this (though quite selfishly glad to see you posting, as I love to read your writing).<br /><br />Two thoughts come to mind:<br /><br />First, in my experience, depression is so all-sapping of energy (emotional, spiritual and physical) that slights and offenses take on an exponentially worse quality. Unfortunately.<br /><br />Second, I think that most people think that there will be some kind of "worth it" effect in first-impression perception after losing weight. In some cases there is, and the "halo effect" kicks in. But not always.<br /><br />In my experience, the same people who labelled you "donut munching seacow" earlier will be the same ones who will think "born on Easy Street" now that you're skinnier.<br /><br />These kind of people, (in my observation at least), have a kind of built-in "lens of deficient empathy" as the way through which they view the world. <br /><br />People used to think I was not very smart ("ditz" was the term) because of my manner and presentation. It used to bother me until I read this from Hillel, I think:<br /><br />"We don't see things the way they are; we see them the way *we* are."<br /><br />The trick, then, is navigating your way through the world, despite it all. <br /><br />I've had to learn to let some things go; in other cases stand and fight the battle. You will definitely be in my thoughts, SFG, and I hope 2013 is more peaceful for you.Jackienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-26871414407343785162012-12-27T08:33:34.669-08:002012-12-27T08:33:34.669-08:00I care because I don't like being regarded as ...I care because I don't like being regarded as if I don't know things I know incredibly well. I care because I don't like people looking at me and thinking they know and understand me with a glance.<br /><br />The latter has been with me all of my life in the worst possible way. When I was much heavier (which was the case for the vast majority of my adult life), this cursory summation of me meant that regarded me with overt disgust, often made critical comments, and tormented me openly. Being the victim for so many years of such summary estimation perhaps has left me sensitive to it even now. I don't like being underestimated whether it be based on my fatness or my skin color. To think I've lead some easy life (or continue to do so because I'm white and walking around in a certain place at a certain time is just as wrong as believing I'm lazy, stupid and gluttonous because I'm fat. <br /><br />I care because, most of all, this is a major contributor to destructive behavior in the world and if people would pause and consider applying the same depth of experience to others that they'd like to have applied to themselves, we'd live in a much more humanistic and compassionate world. That is not a pipe dream, but merely a reflection of what I believe would be the case if we stopped pigeon-holing people as a means of coping with our own psychological issues.screaming fatgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09556199963917842135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-2426037893921963882012-12-26T11:37:31.186-08:002012-12-26T11:37:31.186-08:00Of course it's exasperating to have someone in...Of course it's exasperating to have someone insist on their preconceptions of you. But I also think many of us know people who are in full self-deception mode, and we've learned not to simply accept what they tell us about themselves. <br />I also think most people, whether they realize it or not, spend a lot of time comparing themselves to others, and identifying characteristics they think make them superior. Why do so many of us need this to boost our self-esteem? I don't know the answer to that, but it seems to be extremely common.<br />For me, the trick is to figure out why I care. Why do I care whether someone really understands me, or is constructing a false view of me based on their own perceptions and stereotypes? I'm working on caring less about what others are thinking about me, and caring more about what I think about me, and how I treat others. I can't say I'm good at it yet, but when I practice it, life is a lot less stressful and frustrating!Escape Podhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13305714271662758971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-82206498689628740242012-12-25T08:53:01.911-08:002012-12-25T08:53:01.911-08:00I didn't expect the acquaintance not to make a...I didn't expect the acquaintance not to make a derogatory comment based on size. I do expect people not to believe they know who I am by looking at me. I also expect them to accept what I say when I tell them about myself, not to have to insist on it three times.<br /><br />Categories are one thing. Stereotypes that are meant to diminish are quite another. These people aren't trying to understand me. They are trying to elevate themselves at my expense. If I were to do this (look upon a minority person or a disenfranchised person) and "categorize" them according to a diminishing set of attributes, I would be labeled as a bigot. However, it's okay for people to do it to me and continue to do it to me in the face of new information which should change their initial perception? Really?<br /><br />However, you are probably right. I do expect too much of people. Clearly, most are incapable of accepting people for who they are or waiting to see who they are rather than inflicting their stereotypes on them. screaming fatgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09556199963917842135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-239703775224526488.post-74994078101340720482012-12-24T21:34:42.434-08:002012-12-24T21:34:42.434-08:00I think you're asking too much of people. See...I think you're asking too much of people. Seems to me it's human nature to categorize people, and since looks are most prominent feature, that's what it's based on. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com